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Taupe
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:45 am   



I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if it was
possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with plunger
before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken off (as
it
is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above forces or is
the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a time) make it
structurally week, not as strong as "injection moulding"?

--
'Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything
else is public relations.' - George Orwell

*Beat the system, don't let the corporate fascist take away your
privacy. https://www.privacytools.io/#

Sylvia Else
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:45 am   



On 28/01/2019 11:47 am, Taupe wrote:
Quote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if it was
possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with plunger
before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken off (as
it
is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above forces or is
the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a time) make it
structurally week, not as strong as "injection moulding"?


Don't know about the 3D printing, but the failures of the teeth may be
due to bad design. It's not uncommon to see plastic parts with sharp
corners where loading occurs. Such parts invariably fail by cracking. If
that's the case with yours, then a properly designed gear without that
problem could last well even if it's made from an intrinsically weaker
material.

Sylvia.

news18
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:45 am   



On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:16:37 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

Quote:
On 28/01/2019 11:47 am, Taupe wrote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if it
was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken off
(as it is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above forces
or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a time) make
it structurally week, not as strong as "injection moulding"?


Don't know about the 3D printing, but the failures of the teeth may be
due to bad design.


Or deliberate design. I've been informed that many modern sewing machines
include plastic gears so they wear out and render the machine useless,
thus forcing an upgrade,

news18
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:45 am   



On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:47:12 +1000, Taupe wrote:

Quote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if it
was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.


I'm not familiar with them as I rarely have a reason to consider them
worth purchasing*. howeverm I do follow developments in general
Quote:

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken off
(as it is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above forces
or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a time) make
it structurally week, not as strong as "injection moulding"?


Probably not, but you can give it a try and see what happens.
You've hit on the reason why may 3D printed items fail, the droplets
don't merge before they solify. so the suggestions is to use the fastest
3D printer you can source to encourage droplet merging.

* The offering in 3D printers are one of those periphrals that can only
improve over time.

Taupe
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:45 am   



Sylvia Else wrote:
Quote:
On 28/01/2019 11:47 am, Taupe wrote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if
it was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken
off (as it
is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above
forces or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a
time) make it structurally week, not as strong as "injection
moulding"?

Don't know about the 3D printing, but the failures of the teeth may be
due to bad design. It's not uncommon to see plastic parts with sharp
corners where loading occurs. Such parts invariably fail by cracking.
If that's the case with yours, then a properly designed gear without
that problem could last well even if it's made from an intrinsically
weaker material.

Sylvia.


Maybe design of machine (not enough protective sensors) rather than gears,
as It has
made 1000's coffees without problem.

I suspect cause of problem was amount of coffee dropped in chamber was 'two
loads' (because of failed attempt not ejecting unused coffee).

Therefore the plunger (moved by this gear) was under excessive pressure to
compress excess coffee thus the gears sheared off.

If not by 3D printing, who else makes custom replacement gears?

Taupe
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:45 am   



news18 wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:47:12 +1000, Taupe wrote:

I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if
it was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

I'm not familiar with them as I rarely have a reason to consider them
worth purchasing*. howeverm I do follow developments in general

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken
off (as it is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above
forces or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a
time) make it structurally week, not as strong as "injection
moulding"?

Probably not, but you can give it a try and see what happens.
You've hit on the reason why may 3D printed items fail, the droplets
don't merge before they solify. so the suggestions is to use the
fastest 3D printer you can source to encourage droplet merging.

* The offering in 3D printers are one of those periphrals that can
only improve over time.


A while back I read they managed to 3D print a jet engine (all metal), so it
is possible to do quality intricate things.

The available consumer printers may not be up to this quality, just
introductory device to tinker with & print chess pieces?

Sylvia Else
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:45 am   



On 28/01/2019 1:44 pm, Taupe wrote:
Quote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28/01/2019 11:47 am, Taupe wrote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if
it was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken
off (as it
is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above
forces or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a
time) make it structurally week, not as strong as "injection
moulding"?

Don't know about the 3D printing, but the failures of the teeth may be
due to bad design. It's not uncommon to see plastic parts with sharp
corners where loading occurs. Such parts invariably fail by cracking.
If that's the case with yours, then a properly designed gear without
that problem could last well even if it's made from an intrinsically
weaker material.

Sylvia.

Maybe design of machine (not enough protective sensors) rather than gears,
as It has
made 1000's coffees without problem.


Well, all machines work until they break. How long it takes for a badly
designed gear to fail depends on the loading.
Quote:

I suspect cause of problem was amount of coffee dropped in chamber was 'two
loads' (because of failed attempt not ejecting unused coffee).

Therefore the plunger (moved by this gear) was under excessive pressure to
compress excess coffee thus the gears sheared off.

If not by 3D printing, who else makes custom replacement gears?


Assuming you're in Australia, unless it's a particularly old machine,
the manufacturer or importer is required to ensure that spare parts are
available, and that includes gears.

Sylvia.

news18
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:45 am   



On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:46:00 +1000, Taupe wrote:


Quote:
* The offering in 3D printers are one of those periphrals that can only
improve over time.

A while back I read they managed to 3D print a jet engine (all metal),
so it is possible to do quality intricate things.


If you a hundred thousand dolars or so.
Was it just because "we can" as a model or did it fly?
They have been able to orint ICE engines for40 years, but not one that
run like real engine. that was the old powder and resin printers.
Quote:

The available consumer printers may not be up to this quality, just
introductory device to tinker with & print chess pieces?


FWI seen, exactly.

Colin Horsley
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:45 am   



On 28/01/2019 13:46 pm, Taupe wrote:
Quote:
news18 wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:47:12 +1000, Taupe wrote:

I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if
it was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

I'm not familiar with them as I rarely have a reason to consider them
worth purchasing*. howeverm I do follow developments in general

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken
off (as it is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above
forces or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a
time) make it structurally week, not as strong as "injection
moulding"?

Probably not, but you can give it a try and see what happens.
You've hit on the reason why may 3D printed items fail, the droplets
don't merge before they solify. so the suggestions is to use the
fastest 3D printer you can source to encourage droplet merging.

* The offering in 3D printers are one of those periphrals that can
only improve over time.

A while back I read they managed to 3D print a jet engine (all metal), so it
is possible to do quality intricate things.

The available consumer printers may not be up to this quality, just
introductory device to tinker with & print chess pieces?



Have a look here for replacement gears:-


http://www.sdp-si.com/products/Gears/Index.php

I have bought from them in the past to replace broken gears
on my HP 8640B Sig Gen

Colin

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Taupe
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 am   



Colin Horsley wrote:
Quote:
On 28/01/2019 13:46 pm, Taupe wrote:
news18 wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:47:12 +1000, Taupe wrote:

I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if
it was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

I'm not familiar with them as I rarely have a reason to consider
them worth purchasing*. howeverm I do follow developments in general

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken
off (as it is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above
forces or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a
time) make it structurally week, not as strong as "injection
moulding"?

Probably not, but you can give it a try and see what happens.
You've hit on the reason why may 3D printed items fail, the droplets
don't merge before they solify. so the suggestions is to use the
fastest 3D printer you can source to encourage droplet merging.

* The offering in 3D printers are one of those periphrals that can
only improve over time.

A while back I read they managed to 3D print a jet engine (all
metal), so it is possible to do quality intricate things.

The available consumer printers may not be up to this quality, just
introductory device to tinker with & print chess pieces?



Have a look here for replacement gears:-

http://www.sdp-si.com/products/Gears/Index.php

I have bought from them in the past to replace broken gears
on my HP 8640B Sig Gen

Colin

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Thanks, looks like they've got every gear under the sun, I'll ask for quote.

Taupe
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 am   



news18 wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:46:00 +1000, Taupe wrote:


* The offering in 3D printers are one of those periphrals that can
only improve over time.

A while back I read they managed to 3D print a jet engine (all
metal), so it is possible to do quality intricate things.

If you a hundred thousand dolars or so.
Was it just because "we can" as a model or did it fly?
They have been able to orint ICE engines for40 years, but not one that
run like real engine. that was the old powder and resin printers.


to prove it could be done.
https://newatlas.com/3d-printed-jet-engine/36273/

Quote:
The available consumer printers may not be up to this quality, just
introductory device to tinker with & print chess pieces?

FWI seen, exactly.


Taupe
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 am   



Sylvia Else wrote:
Quote:
On 28/01/2019 1:44 pm, Taupe wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28/01/2019 11:47 am, Taupe wrote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if
it was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken
off (as it
is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above
forces or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a
time) make it structurally week, not as strong as "injection
moulding"?

Don't know about the 3D printing, but the failures of the teeth may
be due to bad design. It's not uncommon to see plastic parts with
sharp corners where loading occurs. Such parts invariably fail by
cracking. If that's the case with yours, then a properly designed
gear without that problem could last well even if it's made from an
intrinsically weaker material.

Sylvia.

Maybe design of machine (not enough protective sensors) rather than
gears, as It has
made 1000's coffees without problem.

Well, all machines work until they break. How long it takes for a
badly designed gear to fail depends on the loading.

I suspect cause of problem was amount of coffee dropped in chamber
was 'two loads' (because of failed attempt not ejecting unused
coffee). Therefore the plunger (moved by this gear) was under excessive
pressure to compress excess coffee thus the gears sheared off.

If not by 3D printing, who else makes custom replacement gears?

Assuming you're in Australia, unless it's a particularly old machine,
the manufacturer or importer is required to ensure that spare parts
are available, and that includes gears.

Sylvia.


It's not new (not under warranty), the way manufacturers go
through consumer products
cycle my model is a 'dinosaur' to what they produce now.

The "selling point" of 3D printing was that it would enable customers to
print their own broken parts.

Sylvia Else
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 am   



On 28/01/2019 4:51 pm, Taupe wrote:
Quote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28/01/2019 1:44 pm, Taupe wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
On 28/01/2019 11:47 am, Taupe wrote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if
it was possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with
plunger before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken
off (as it
is made of plastic )

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above
forces or is the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a
time) make it structurally week, not as strong as "injection
moulding"?

Don't know about the 3D printing, but the failures of the teeth may
be due to bad design. It's not uncommon to see plastic parts with
sharp corners where loading occurs. Such parts invariably fail by
cracking. If that's the case with yours, then a properly designed
gear without that problem could last well even if it's made from an
intrinsically weaker material.

Sylvia.

Maybe design of machine (not enough protective sensors) rather than
gears, as It has
made 1000's coffees without problem.

Well, all machines work until they break. How long it takes for a
badly designed gear to fail depends on the loading.

I suspect cause of problem was amount of coffee dropped in chamber
was 'two loads' (because of failed attempt not ejecting unused
coffee). Therefore the plunger (moved by this gear) was under excessive
pressure to compress excess coffee thus the gears sheared off.

If not by 3D printing, who else makes custom replacement gears?

Assuming you're in Australia, unless it's a particularly old machine,
the manufacturer or importer is required to ensure that spare parts
are available, and that includes gears.

Sylvia.

It's not new (not under warranty), the way manufacturers go
through consumer products
cycle my model is a 'dinosaur' to what they produce now.


The obligation to make spare parts available extends well beyond the
warranty period.

Xeno
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:45 am   



On 28/1/19 11:47 am, Taupe wrote:
Quote:
I have a auto. coffee machine with a busted Gear & was wondering if it was
possible to replace the gear by 3D printing it.

It is a significant piece as it compresses the ground coffee with plunger
before hot water forced through.

with age/ over-use/misalignment? the teeth on the gears have broken off (as
it is made of plastic )


It would actually be Delrin or something akin to it.
Quote:

Is it possible to make a solid gear able to withstand the above forces or is
the method of 3D printing (i.e built up droplets at a time) make it
structurally week, not as strong as "injection moulding"?

Unlikely given the way the 3D printers *layer* the objects.


--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

news18
Guest

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:45 pm   



On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 22:02:17 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:


Quote:
The available consumer printers may not be up to this quality, just
introductory device to tinker with & print chess pieces?

FWI seen, exactly.

They can't print metal, but they can print plastic about well as a
cheaper (possibly the expensive ones too) metal 3D printer can print
metal.


My understanding is that they now can "print metal" and that some of the
motor companies as well as others are doing so. Mainly prototypes I
believe.

First we will see them used to produce the "moulds" to shape metal as 3D
printing is a relatively inefficent production method compared to some
other methods.

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