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bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:45 am   



On 01/06/2019 05:50 PM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:39:24 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 01:43 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 17:30:58 UTC, bitrex wrote:

Americans tend to over-spend on their vehicles, period.

Hugely. The resulting value for money is lousy.


NT


Not in small part because of duplicitous/high-pressure sales tactics,
the unprepared car buyer tends to leave with more car than they planned
on shelling out for.

Cars are one of the few consumer goods that it's still customary to
haggle over, even at a reputable major dealer with numerous good reviews.

I didn't get a good offer on my first or second try at closing a deal on
my Volt. It took the better part of three hours of back and forth in a
sales office, pulling out my calculator and pen and paper and running
numbers on the spot to "frighten" them ("I'm rather good with
figures..."), making phone calls ("Excuse me a sec...") and generalized
arm-twisting to Donald Trump them into submission on a price I wanted to
pay.

I kinda enjoy doing that every once in a while, the sales rep and I
shake hands after it's over and no hard feelings it's just business.
Their usual tactics don't intimidate me at all. Not everyone is that
way, though.

That applies here too. US cars are just stupidly overpowered, overweight & overpriced.

Well... with one exception Smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6YCP5aqk9g


NT


I had a girlfriend once who owned a lot of shoes, I asked one time "Say,
why do you own so many shoes?" and she retorted "I can't be seen on the
train standing next to some bitch wearing better shoes than I am!"

This relationship didn't last. Guess I'm not "aggressively American"
enough oh well

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:45 am   



On 01/06/2019 05:50 PM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:39:24 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 01:43 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 17:30:58 UTC, bitrex wrote:

Americans tend to over-spend on their vehicles, period.

Hugely. The resulting value for money is lousy.


NT


Not in small part because of duplicitous/high-pressure sales tactics,
the unprepared car buyer tends to leave with more car than they planned
on shelling out for.

Cars are one of the few consumer goods that it's still customary to
haggle over, even at a reputable major dealer with numerous good reviews.

I didn't get a good offer on my first or second try at closing a deal on
my Volt. It took the better part of three hours of back and forth in a
sales office, pulling out my calculator and pen and paper and running
numbers on the spot to "frighten" them ("I'm rather good with
figures..."), making phone calls ("Excuse me a sec...") and generalized
arm-twisting to Donald Trump them into submission on a price I wanted to
pay.

I kinda enjoy doing that every once in a while, the sales rep and I
shake hands after it's over and no hard feelings it's just business.
Their usual tactics don't intimidate me at all. Not everyone is that
way, though.

That applies here too. US cars are just stupidly overpowered, overweight & overpriced.

Well... with one exception Smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6YCP5aqk9g


NT


It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine. My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine>

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV>

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:45 am   



On 01/06/2019 06:17 PM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:58:59 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 05:50 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:39:24 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 01:43 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 17:30:58 UTC, bitrex wrote:

Americans tend to over-spend on their vehicles, period.

Hugely. The resulting value for money is lousy.


NT


Not in small part because of duplicitous/high-pressure sales tactics,
the unprepared car buyer tends to leave with more car than they planned
on shelling out for.

Cars are one of the few consumer goods that it's still customary to
haggle over, even at a reputable major dealer with numerous good reviews.

I didn't get a good offer on my first or second try at closing a deal on
my Volt. It took the better part of three hours of back and forth in a
sales office, pulling out my calculator and pen and paper and running
numbers on the spot to "frighten" them ("I'm rather good with
figures..."), making phone calls ("Excuse me a sec...") and generalized
arm-twisting to Donald Trump them into submission on a price I wanted to
pay.

I kinda enjoy doing that every once in a while, the sales rep and I
shake hands after it's over and no hard feelings it's just business.
Their usual tactics don't intimidate me at all. Not everyone is that
way, though.

That applies here too. US cars are just stupidly overpowered, overweight & overpriced.

Well... with one exception Smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6YCP5aqk9g


NT


It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.

American culture is in many ways descended from its Calvinist founders
but Calvinism's rigidity is somewhat diluted now, many disagreements
among Americans are about particulars-of-denial and where the dividing
line between a "good" person and "bad" person is, precisely.

About the one thing the majority of Americans can agree about is that
most kinds of sex are wrong so there need to be substitutes.


Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 am   



On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 1:26:50 AM UTC+11, amdx wrote:
Quote:
On 1/6/2019 7:03 AM, bill.sloman_at_ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 9:21:01 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 3:17:20 AM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 4:11:02 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 8:54:27 PM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 2:54:40 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 01:03:36 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:
On 01/03/2019 10:23 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:47 PM, bitrex wrote:


<snip>


Quote:
There are other issues involved in such situations. One that would concern me is vandalism. Because they are new I would expect some percentage of them to be damaged or the cables stolen for the copper inside. But then I'm not an apartment type of person.

The parking area in our garage is not accessible to the public. There are key-operated gates on every entry point. The cars stored there are a lot more valuable than a length of copper cable.

Sounds like you have a wall around that, does it keep people from
entering illegally?


The wall around the parking area extends upwards to support twelves floors of apartments. It is a structural element that was an essential part of the design of the building from the start, as opposed to an add-on proposed by a recent strata-committee chairman with an eye for voting-catching extravagances.

Quote:
$8,000 on top of a $35,000 car is a bit rich for a lot of people.

It isn't going to be the price an average car owner would have to pay.

So charging at fast chargers is a better option for them just like they don't have their own wells or grow their own food.

Scarcely parallel examples. The average garage has a light circuit. Most have power points adequate for regular power tools. Plugging a car charger into such a power point isn't comparable with digging a well.

Even though they are just 240 volt circuits someone has to pay for the electricity so they need to be connected to the appropriate meter and then run to an appropriate parking space.

The current drawn has to be metered - which isn't a big deal - and even parking meters can now recognize regular cash cards.

Yep, some day they will happen. I recall paying $2 an hour to park in Bethesda, MD (a restaurant Mecca). It would be nice to get something for that money. But those meters don't have power.

The local parking meters have enough power to run a cash-card reader. In Canada a parking meter has a low-powered power socket for your car's radiator warmer - and your parking charge pays for that current.

Interesting! Also probably why so many Canadians come to Florida for
the winter. Smile


Both are responses to very low winter temperatures.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:45 am   



On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 1:57:15 AM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 8:03:56 AM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 9:21:01 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 3:17:20 AM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 4:11:02 PM UTC+11, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 8:54:27 PM UTC-5, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 2:54:40 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 01:03:36 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:
On 01/03/2019 10:23 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:47 PM, bitrex wrote:

snip

Charger congestion could become a limiting turn-off for electric car
owners. Gas fillups are faster than recharges, but gas stations are
already crowded in many places; the real estate is more valuable as
apartment buildings.

But everybody has electricity in their homes, and their garages.. The average car spends 95% of its time parked, and it makes sense to charge it where it's parked, rather than having to make trip to a charging station.

That's a great idea, often expressed as ABC, "Always Be Charging" and can work all the time except when it doesn't. Your support of it is based on a single data point and as we've discussed before this is not enough information to adequately characterize the situation.

Which "single data point" would that be?

You don't like the whole idea, but that makes you a single data point.

You know exactly what I am talking about,

You may like to think so, but it's revealing that you didn't identify the "single data point" that you are claiming that you have identified.

but you like to turn to personal attacks when you don't have a valid argument.

There's nothing particularly personal in asking you to identify the "single data point".

Your 95% number seems to be the be-all factoid that justifies so much of your thinking regarding EVs. Unfortunately there is a *lot* of information that single datum hides.

An average is single data point.

Ah, so you do know the single data point in question.


After you identified it. It wasn't actually a single data point - as I went on to point out.

Quote:
The UK average is 96.5%

The Australian figure seems to be 96% - 80% of the time parked at home, 16% of the time parked away from home.


95% parked does seem to capture a common feature of car ownership.

Quote:
We did discuss how the proportion of cars parked changes during the day, and I dug up a link that showed that proportion didn't drop much below 88% at any time - it may look as if every car in the area is on the road at peak commuting times, but the figures don't seem to support that point of view.

And none of that is relevant because the car is not useful at a single point in time. It is only useful when used to store energy to be released at another time. If the car is in transit at the time its energy is needed, it can't be used. Energy needs to be drawn at peak usage times. This is exactly when the availability drops to the minimum for commuting cars.

BTW, what does "not much below 88%" mean? Does that mean 87%? 85%? 80%, 50%?

The devil is in the details.


I posted the link at the time.

Quote:
https://www.quora.com/How-many-drivers-are-on-the-road-at-any-given-time-in-the-US

You didn't really read this link did you? It doesn't say what you think it says or at least not what you are claiming.


You don't seem to have understood what it says. Peak road occupancy isn't sharply peaked - there are no more than twice as many cars on the road at peak times as there are in the middle of the day.

Quote:
There are two big issues, the first of which is travel. Tesla built a Supercharger network to support travel.

But few people spend much of their driving time "travelling". You seem to be unusual in this respect.

Not at all relevant. Nearly everyone takes trips that will require refueling along the way, even if only on the return trip. So they care about recharging on route.


But there aren't many of them, so en-route recharging doesn't demand massive investment in charging stations.

<snip>

Quote:
The other issue is that many locations simply don't have facilities and there is no money to add them. L2 chargers are all that is needed for long term parking (home and work are the most useful). But many home locations simply don't have facilities to support this and it can be very expensive to add them.

For some undefined value of "very expensive". It's just another power point.

One example I know of a person was quoted $8,000 to install a 240 volt outlet by her parking space in the garage of the apartment building in CA.. CA has a law that says the apartment owners have to accommodate her needs, but at her expense. They seem to be cooperating with her, but the work involved is not like adding a 20 foot wire and outlet in your garage.

That's exactly the physical work involved. It's easy enough to find ways to charge more on top of this - mechanically robust protection for what otherwise would be an accessible power lead, and an insurance inspection to prove that putting in the wiring is not going to set up any kid of potentially hazardous situation. Lazy apartment owners know how to get out of inconvenient requests.

Not sure what your point is.


Your $8000 estimate isn't the cost of doing the job. It was inflated to allow the apartment owner to avoid doing the job - with enough margin built in to allow them to over-compensate themselves if the person had persisted.

Quote:
There are other issues involved in such situations. One that would concern me is vandalism. Because they are new I would expect some percentage of them to be damaged or the cables stolen for the copper inside. But then I'm not an apartment type of person.

The parking area in our garage is not accessible to the public. There are key-operated gates on every entry point. The cars stored there are a lot more valuable than a length of copper cable.

Your point? Kids don't see a car as a "new" thing. There is also not much they can steal for money. I know of people stealing copper for the monetary value and I know of chargers that have been vandalized.


So?

Quote:
$8,000 on top of a $35,000 car is a bit rich for a lot of people.

It isn't going to be the price an average car owner would have to pay.

No, exactly, it can't be averaged. It would need to be paid by the individual who lives in the apartment. There are lots of those.


And if electric cars get to be common-place, apartment owners are going to have provide charging if they want to be able to rent their apartments to people who need to keep a car.

Quote:
So charging at fast chargers is a better option for them just like they don't have their own wells or grow their own food.

Scarcely parallel examples. The average garage has a light circuit. Most have power points adequate for regular power tools. Plugging a car charger into such a power point isn't comparable with digging a well.

You seem to be smoking dope on this one. I've already explained it to you.


Your "explanation" is more a a restatement of your irrational prejudice.

> Go back and read why you are off target here.

I'm not addressing your particular obsession? What a pity.

Quote:
Even though they are just 240 volt circuits someone has to pay for the electricity so they need to be connected to the appropriate meter and then run to an appropriate parking space.

The current drawn has to be metered - which isn't a big deal - and even parking meters can now recognise regular cash cards.

Yep, some day they will happen. I recall paying $2 an hour to park in Bethesda, MD (a restaurant Mecca). It would be nice to get something for that money. But those meters don't have power.

The local parking meters have enough power to run a cash-card reader. In Canada a parking meter has a low-powered power socket for your car's radiator warmer - and your parking charge pays for that current.

So the problem is solved for Canadian cars parked at public parking meters... after they've increased the power capability ten fold or more.


Would they have laid ultra-thin cable to save money? Cheaper to put load-limitng
resistors in the parking meter, and even cheaper (these days) to put in an active current limiter that turns off the voltage if the load gets too greedy.

Quote:
Someone would need to pay for installing chargers at each meter. That's a *lot* of money to cough up even if it makes money in the end. It won't happen overnight and in the mean time there aren't good places to charge in general, other than at the fast chargers or at home if possible.

Parking meters already cost $500-$600 each. Smart meters already need a mains electricity supply and the information link to report and verify credit card transactions, and beefing that up to support domestic charging currents isn't going to make much difference to the price - which is mostly digging the holes and filling them in afterwards.

https://www.concordma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1495/Concord-Technology-Memo-PDF

I don't know that all parking meters have power lines to them rather than just having batteries.


Who recharges the batteries?

> But more importantly is the widespread adoption of multi-space meters where you walk to a kiosk to buy a parking permit. Then you would need an extension cord half a block long. They would be stolen.

They might be, if they weren't chased into the ground or the walls. Parking garages have lights, and the copper leads to those lights don't get stolen - it's a known problem with a known solution which you seem to lack the wit to have noticed.

<snip>


Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On Monday, 7 January 2019 00:04:21 UTC, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 01/06/2019 06:17 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:58:59 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 05:50 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:39:24 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 01:43 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 6 January 2019 17:30:58 UTC, bitrex wrote:

Americans tend to over-spend on their vehicles, period.

Hugely. The resulting value for money is lousy.


NT


Not in small part because of duplicitous/high-pressure sales tactics,
the unprepared car buyer tends to leave with more car than they planned
on shelling out for.

Cars are one of the few consumer goods that it's still customary to
haggle over, even at a reputable major dealer with numerous good reviews.

I didn't get a good offer on my first or second try at closing a deal on
my Volt. It took the better part of three hours of back and forth in a
sales office, pulling out my calculator and pen and paper and running
numbers on the spot to "frighten" them ("I'm rather good with
figures..."), making phone calls ("Excuse me a sec...") and generalized
arm-twisting to Donald Trump them into submission on a price I wanted to
pay.

I kinda enjoy doing that every once in a while, the sales rep and I
shake hands after it's over and no hard feelings it's just business.
Their usual tactics don't intimidate me at all. Not everyone is that
way, though.

That applies here too. US cars are just stupidly overpowered, overweight & overpriced.

Well... with one exception Smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6YCP5aqk9g


NT


It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.


Lol. If there's one thing USians talk a whole lot of nonsense about it's car horsepower.


NT

Quote:
American culture is in many ways descended from its Calvinist founders
but Calvinism's rigidity is somewhat diluted now, many disagreements
among Americans are about particulars-of-denial and where the dividing
line between a "good" person and "bad" person is, precisely.

About the one thing the majority of Americans can agree about is that
most kinds of sex are wrong so there need to be substitutes.


bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 01/06/2019 11:12 PM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.

Lol. If there's one thing USians talk a whole lot of nonsense about it's car horsepower.


My pappy said "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' if you don't stop
drivin' that hot rod Lincoln!"

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1lV7Qkm4o>


Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:45 pm   



On Monday, 7 January 2019 04:29:17 UTC, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 01/06/2019 11:12 PM, tabbypurr wrote:

It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.

Lol. If there's one thing USians talk a whole lot of nonsense about it's car horsepower.


My pappy said "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' if you don't stop
drivin' that hot rod Lincoln!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1lV7Qkm4o


Now here's some quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACO-HXvrRz8

and the antidote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y16ObVRvgOE


NT

Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:45 pm   



mandag den 7. januar 2019 kl. 18.36.22 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
Quote:
On 01/07/2019 07:39 AM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 7 January 2019 04:29:17 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 11:12 PM, tabbypurr wrote:

It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.

Lol. If there's one thing USians talk a whole lot of nonsense about it's car horsepower.


My pappy said "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' if you don't stop
drivin' that hot rod Lincoln!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1lV7Qkm4o

Now here's some quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACO-HXvrRz8

I've seen a video or two about Jay's E-25 steam car before, that's a
wild piece of engineering. The drivetrain is sort of like an electric
(not really) but it has huge torque across its power band and at all
speeds, the crankshaft seems to be more-or-less the rear axle with the
pistons mounted directly to it and feed steam into that, no transmission
or torque converter or any of that.

and the antidote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y16ObVRvgOE


NT


but the award for worst _production_ car should probably go to the
Trabant, yeah? The Hoffmann seems mad but not mad for a one-off :)

The Trabant engine look "made on a budget" but well-made for what it
is...can't say the same about the rest of the car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5jTB9S5GU


https://youtu.be/nZJHAqo-cCY

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:45 pm   



On 01/07/2019 07:39 AM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Monday, 7 January 2019 04:29:17 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 11:12 PM, tabbypurr wrote:

It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.

Lol. If there's one thing USians talk a whole lot of nonsense about it's car horsepower.


My pappy said "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' if you don't stop
drivin' that hot rod Lincoln!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1lV7Qkm4o

Now here's some quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACO-HXvrRz8


I've seen a video or two about Jay's E-25 steam car before, that's a
wild piece of engineering. The drivetrain is sort of like an electric
(not really) but it has huge torque across its power band and at all
speeds, the crankshaft seems to be more-or-less the rear axle with the
pistons mounted directly to it and feed steam into that, no transmission
or torque converter or any of that.

Quote:


but the award for worst _production_ car should probably go to the
Trabant, yeah? The Hoffmann seems mad but not mad for a one-off :)

The Trabant engine look "made on a budget" but well-made for what it
is...can't say the same about the rest of the car

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5jTB9S5GU>

Winfield Hill
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:45 pm   



bitrex wrote...
Quote:

On 01/03/2019 03:52 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...

As of December 19th 2018 the four year grand total
of Massachusetts state EV purchase/lease rebates is...

Hybrids don't count? How about a hybrid plugin?

I don't believe regular-hybrids like e.g. the non-plug-in Prius were
ever eligible. Vehicles like the Prius Prime and Volt which are plug-in
hybrids are eligible if they were purchased prior to Dec 31, 2018.

Ah, so my Prius Prime Plug-in purchase was counted.

If they sent you the check and it was cashed it surely was!


Hey, I didn't get any check. What am I missing?


--
Thanks,
- Win

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:45 pm   



On 01/07/2019 12:25 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Quote:
bitrex wrote...

On 01/03/2019 03:52 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...

As of December 19th 2018 the four year grand total
of Massachusetts state EV purchase/lease rebates is...

Hybrids don't count? How about a hybrid plugin?

I don't believe regular-hybrids like e.g. the non-plug-in Prius were
ever eligible. Vehicles like the Prius Prime and Volt which are plug-in
hybrids are eligible if they were purchased prior to Dec 31, 2018.

Ah, so my Prius Prime Plug-in purchase was counted.

If they sent you the check and it was cashed it surely was!

Hey, I didn't get any check. What am I missing?



Have to submit an application with scans of the purchase agreement,
registration, VIN and stuff like that here, it doesn't happen automatically:

<https://mor-ev.org/apply>

Since you purchased a plug-in hybrid prior to the first of this year
when they changed the qualifications to strictly-BEV or fuel cell you
should still be eligible for a rebate on it

George Herold
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:45 pm   



On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 12:41:17 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Quote:
mandag den 7. januar 2019 kl. 18.36.22 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
On 01/07/2019 07:39 AM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 7 January 2019 04:29:17 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 11:12 PM, tabbypurr wrote:

It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.

Lol. If there's one thing USians talk a whole lot of nonsense about it's car horsepower.


My pappy said "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' if you don't stop
drivin' that hot rod Lincoln!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1lV7Qkm4o

Now here's some quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACO-HXvrRz8

I've seen a video or two about Jay's E-25 steam car before, that's a
wild piece of engineering. The drivetrain is sort of like an electric
(not really) but it has huge torque across its power band and at all
speeds, the crankshaft seems to be more-or-less the rear axle with the
pistons mounted directly to it and feed steam into that, no transmission
or torque converter or any of that.

and the antidote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y16ObVRvgOE


NT


but the award for worst _production_ car should probably go to the
Trabant, yeah? The Hoffmann seems mad but not mad for a one-off :)

The Trabant engine look "made on a budget" but well-made for what it
is...can't say the same about the rest of the car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5jTB9S5GU

https://youtu.be/nZJHAqo-cCY


Grin. Fine, hand crafted, German engineering.

George H.

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:45 pm   



On 01/07/2019 12:41 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Quote:
mandag den 7. januar 2019 kl. 18.36.22 UTC+1 skrev bitrex:
On 01/07/2019 07:39 AM, tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, 7 January 2019 04:29:17 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 01/06/2019 11:12 PM, tabbypurr wrote:

It sounds like it has a lawnmower engine.

2 cylinder 18 horses. Wasted spark, not even a distributor.

My first car was a used 1989
Chevrolet Celebrity with the base-trim engine, a single-point injection
"Iron Duke" four

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine

It's the same engine used in the Grumman LLV mail trucks still in common
use here in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV

It probably made about 100 hp on a good day. Best I can say for that
car's performance is "unremarkable."

Who needs remarkable?


NT


Well, a Calvinist doesn't, that's sort of what a Calvinist would argue.
Life is a curse and every puerile desire of the flesh must be denied to
render it pure, and that includes the desire to enjoy driving a vehicle
that moves in a straight line any quicker than it has to by necessity.

Lol. If there's one thing USians talk a whole lot of nonsense about it's car horsepower.


My pappy said "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin' if you don't stop
drivin' that hot rod Lincoln!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1lV7Qkm4o

Now here's some quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACO-HXvrRz8

I've seen a video or two about Jay's E-25 steam car before, that's a
wild piece of engineering. The drivetrain is sort of like an electric
(not really) but it has huge torque across its power band and at all
speeds, the crankshaft seems to be more-or-less the rear axle with the
pistons mounted directly to it and feed steam into that, no transmission
or torque converter or any of that.

and the antidote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y16ObVRvgOE


NT


but the award for worst _production_ car should probably go to the
Trabant, yeah? The Hoffmann seems mad but not mad for a one-off :)

The Trabant engine look "made on a budget" but well-made for what it
is...can't say the same about the rest of the car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5jTB9S5GU

https://youtu.be/nZJHAqo-cCY


At 1:31 it appears to have a tail-light out already, or perhaps it just
came with a single tail-light stock and the other was optional equipment.

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:45 pm   



On 01/07/2019 12:43 PM, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 01/07/2019 12:25 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...

On 01/03/2019 03:52 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:
bitrex wrote...

As of December 19th 2018 the four year grand total
of Massachusetts state EV purchase/lease rebates is...

    Hybrids don't count?  How about a hybrid plugin?

I don't believe regular-hybrids like e.g. the non-plug-in Prius were
ever eligible. Vehicles like the Prius Prime and Volt which are
plug-in
hybrids are eligible if they were purchased prior to Dec 31, 2018.

   Ah, so my Prius Prime Plug-in purchase was counted.

If they sent you the check and it was cashed it surely was!

  Hey, I didn't get any check.  What am I missing?



Have to submit an application with scans of the purchase agreement,
registration, VIN and stuff like that here, it doesn't happen
automatically:

https://mor-ev.org/apply

Since you purchased a plug-in hybrid prior to the first of this year
when they changed the qualifications to strictly-BEV or fuel cell you
should still be eligible for a rebate on it



My first Chevy dealer didn't tell me anything about the program either,
it's mad that salespeople _in Massachusetts_ weren't aware of this
program applicability to plug-in hybrids to use as a selling point "Hey
you know you can get a check that will probably cover your down payment
and/or excise tax", solid sales-prevention tactics

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