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Clifford Heath
Guest

Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:14 pm   



On 16/09/17 07:38, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quote:
On 15/09/2017 9:47 PM, keithr0 wrote:
None of these were a commercial success. AFAIK all other nuclear ships
were military.

**None may have been a commercial success, based on the costs of running
Diesel engines, without regard to CO2 emissions and the costs of fuel.
Things are likely to change in the medium term on both issues.

Even for cargo chips, crewing costs are close to par with fuel costs.
That's why many of them are fully auto-piloted now (and for the
reduced piracy risk).

What do you think the crew of a cruise ship costs? It's certainly
a huge amount more than the fuel.

Clifford Heath.

keithr0
Guest

Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:54 pm   



On 9/16/2017 8:14 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
Quote:
On 16/09/17 07:38, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 15/09/2017 9:47 PM, keithr0 wrote:
None of these were a commercial success. AFAIK all other nuclear
ships were military.

**None may have been a commercial success, based on the costs of
running Diesel engines, without regard to CO2 emissions and the costs
of fuel. Things are likely to change in the medium term on both issues.
Even for cargo chips, crewing costs are close to par with fuel costs.
That's why many of them are fully auto-piloted now (and for the
reduced piracy risk).

What do you think the crew of a cruise ship costs? It's certainly
a huge amount more than the fuel.

Clifford Heath.


Most of the crews are Indonesian being paid a pittance to work 12+ hours
a day for 8 months at a time. On one ship that I was on there was a
display on the bridge that seemed to show fuel cost, it was showing
$11.11 per minute which is about $16000US per day.

Trevor Wilson
Guest

Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:44 am   



On 16/09/2017 1:55 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Quote:
keithr0 <user_at_account.invalid> wrote:
On 9/13/2017 9:03 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Trevor Wilson <trevor_at_spamblockrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

The existing fuel supply system won't collapse overnight.

Yep, for as long as our civilisation keeps itself together I doubt that
it will ever become impossible for people like us to buy fuel, but at
some point soon it probably won't make sense to keep using it for
personal everyday transport.

Mazda have a different view of things

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/mazda-s-inconvenient-truth-65066.html?trackLink=articleResults10

Interesting. Of course it depends what the key motivator is to go electric.
This thread was started about the idea of lower running costs, while that
article disputes the environmental benefits.

The running costs side isn't so clear in the long run either. Besides the
cost of electricity, the batteries will only last a decade or so before
needing to be replaced, so in the long run they're an important consideration
for resale values and for long term owners. On the other hand there are
fewer mechanical parts to require servicing and potentially replacement,
so maybe it balances itself out.


**
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-question-how-does-the-toyota-prius-hold-up/index.htm

Just sayin'.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson
Guest

Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:52 am   



On 16/09/2017 8:14 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
Quote:
On 16/09/17 07:38, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 15/09/2017 9:47 PM, keithr0 wrote:
None of these were a commercial success. AFAIK all other nuclear
ships were military.

**None may have been a commercial success, based on the costs of
running Diesel engines, without regard to CO2 emissions and the costs
of fuel. Things are likely to change in the medium term on both issues.
Even for cargo chips, crewing costs are close to par with fuel costs.


**I doubt that. Here is a 1982 report:

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/1982/files/ip_004.pdf

And here are some fuel consumption figures:

https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch8en/conc8en/fuel_consumption_containerships.html

I freely admit that I don't know what the crew requirements are for a
cargo ship (I've only been on one), but I suspect it is less than 30.

Based on that, I suspect fuel costs would far outweigh crew costs.


Quote:
That's why many of them are fully auto-piloted now (and for the
reduced piracy risk).

What do you think the crew of a cruise ship costs? It's certainly
a huge amount more than the fuel.


**Dunno. I've seen figures where crew:passenger ratios exceed 1:1, so
you could be right. For now. As fuel costs rise (as they surely will),
then things will likely change.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Computer Nerd Kev
Guest

Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:21 am   



Trevor Wilson <trevor_at_spamblockrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
Quote:
On 16/09/2017 1:55 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
keithr0 <user_at_account.invalid> wrote:
On 9/13/2017 9:03 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Trevor Wilson <trevor_at_spamblockrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

The existing fuel supply system won't collapse overnight.

Yep, for as long as our civilisation keeps itself together I doubt that
it will ever become impossible for people like us to buy fuel, but at
some point soon it probably won't make sense to keep using it for
personal everyday transport.

Mazda have a different view of things

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/mazda-s-inconvenient-truth-65066.html?trackLink=articleResults10

Interesting. Of course it depends what the key motivator is to go electric.
This thread was started about the idea of lower running costs, while that
article disputes the environmental benefits.

The running costs side isn't so clear in the long run either. Besides the
cost of electricity, the batteries will only last a decade or so before
needing to be replaced, so in the long run they're an important consideration
for resale values and for long term owners. On the other hand there are
fewer mechanical parts to require servicing and potentially replacement,
so maybe it balances itself out.


**
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-question-how-does-the-toyota-prius-hold-up/index.htm

Just sayin'.


Curious, I actually looked into this a few years ago for old hybrid vehicles
and got the impression that the batteries were lucky to last until the 10yr
mark. There's also an active industry making/rebuilding after-market battery
units.

I also knew one bloke who bought one of the original Prius' second-hand (it
had been imported from Japan) and had trouble with the aging batteries,
though I can't remember the details.

I'd say a larger sample size is required, but it is an interesting article.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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