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74HC4046 Model Development

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Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:02 am   



I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

bitrex
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:06 am   



On 10/20/2012 8:02 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills >:-}

...Jim Thompson


Thanks for taking on my suggestion from a while back, Jim. Looking
forward to trying it out!

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:15 am   



On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:06:46 -0400, bitrex
<bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:
On 10/20/2012 8:02 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills >:-}

...Jim Thompson


Thanks for taking on my suggestion from a while back, Jim. Looking
forward to trying it out!

My aim is to make the model as close to the silicon as possible.

For amusement, since it had been mentioned, I'm also doing the uA741
at the same time. It may be done tomorrow or Monday, since it's
rather easy.

The 4046 will take awhile to get all the pieces working together.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Günter Haarmann
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:36 pm   



Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
Quote:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:42 pm   



On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:36:17 +0200, Günter Haarmann <none_at_none.de>
wrote:

Quote:
Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

I'm not in the teaching business, I'm in the money-making business, so
I don't want to divulge my techniques.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Tim Wescott
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:31 pm   



On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 10:42:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:36:17 +0200, Günter Haarmann <none_at_none.de
wrote:

Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

I'm not in the teaching business, I'm in the money-making business, so I
don't want to divulge my techniques.

...Jim Thompson

So you want us to review it for free so that you can go make money off of
it?

Hmm.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:16 pm   



On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 13:31:44 -0500, Tim Wescott
<tim_at_seemywebsite.please> wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 10:42:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:36:17 +0200, Günter Haarmann <none_at_none.de
wrote:

Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

I'm not in the teaching business, I'm in the money-making business, so I
don't want to divulge my techniques.

...Jim Thompson

So you want us to review it for free so that you can go make money off of
it?

Hmm.

If you will remember a prior post, I asked which devices had poor
Spice models. The 74HC4046 was mentioned multiple times. I am
supplying a model that I presume will behave more accurately. Since
the 74HC4046 is complex, I am asking, as I go, "Does this portion
fit?"

If no one really wants a good 74HC4046 model I'll go do something
else.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

John S
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:51 pm   



On 10/21/2012 2:16 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 13:31:44 -0500, Tim Wescott
tim_at_seemywebsite.please> wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 10:42:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:36:17 +0200, Günter Haarmann <none_at_none.de
wrote:

Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

I'm not in the teaching business, I'm in the money-making business, so I
don't want to divulge my techniques.

...Jim Thompson

So you want us to review it for free so that you can go make money off of
it?

Hmm.

If you will remember a prior post, I asked which devices had poor
Spice models. The 74HC4046 was mentioned multiple times. I am
supplying a model that I presume will behave more accurately. Since
the 74HC4046 is complex, I am asking, as I go, "Does this portion
fit?"

If no one really wants a good 74HC4046 model I'll go do something
else.

...Jim Thompson

Please do that.

Otherwise, if you want to help and want help yourself, then work with
these people.

Nico Coesel
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:22 pm   



Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 13:31:44 -0500, Tim Wescott
tim_at_seemywebsite.please> wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 10:42:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:36:17 +0200, Günter Haarmann <none_at_none.de
wrote:

Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

I'm not in the teaching business, I'm in the money-making business, so I
don't want to divulge my techniques.

...Jim Thompson

So you want us to review it for free so that you can go make money off of
it?

Hmm.

If you will remember a prior post, I asked which devices had poor
Spice models. The 74HC4046 was mentioned multiple times. I am
supplying a model that I presume will behave more accurately. Since
the 74HC4046 is complex, I am asking, as I go, "Does this portion
fit?"

If no one really wants a good 74HC4046 model I'll go do something
else.

I'll think (more than) twice before I use the 4046 in a design again.
As Phil and you pointed out its pretty crappy.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico_at_nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:27 pm   



On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Quote:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills >:-}


What upsets me most is that it's a copy of my 1965 design, the MC4024

(bipolar devices, oscillator core is PECL, TTL output). And they
bungled the copy Sad Unlike my original version, the CMOS version
dumps the capacitor is an uncontrolled manner, and the thresholds and
current mirrors are abominations of "engineering".

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:42 pm   



On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 17:47:38 -0500, legg <legg_at_nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:27:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills >:-}


What upsets me most is that it's a copy of my 1965 design, the MC4024
(bipolar devices, oscillator core is PECL, TTL output). And they
bungled the copy Sad Unlike my original version, the CMOS version
dumps the capacitor is an uncontrolled manner, and the thresholds and
current mirrors are abominations of "engineering".

...Jim Thompson

Are bungled abominations more difficult to model?

RL

Yes Wink

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

legg
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:47 pm   



On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:27:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills >:-}


What upsets me most is that it's a copy of my 1965 design, the MC4024
(bipolar devices, oscillator core is PECL, TTL output). And they
bungled the copy Sad Unlike my original version, the CMOS version
dumps the capacitor is an uncontrolled manner, and the thresholds and
current mirrors are abominations of "engineering".

...Jim Thompson

Are bungled abominations more difficult to model?

RL

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:28 pm   



On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Quote:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills >:-}


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Günter Haarmann
Guest

Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:26 am   



Am 22.10.2012 01:28, schrieb Jim Thompson:

Quote:

I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson


No. if you don´t want to give you won´t receive.

You want to earn money with it, then spend some money for testers.

Phil Hobbs
Guest

Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:04 pm   



On 10/22/2012 07:26 AM, Günter Haarmann wrote:
Quote:
Am 22.10.2012 01:28, schrieb Jim Thompson:


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson


No. if you don´t want to give you won´t receive.

You want to earn money with it, then spend some money for testers.

I dunno. Making the model will probably help some folks, if they don't
expect its horrible nonlinearity to be horrible in quite the same way as
the production parts. (For a variety of reasons, I'm also in favour of
people being able to make a living.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

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