45-degree diagonal cutters?

Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:35 pm   

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:54:40 -0800, life imitates life
<pasticcio_at_thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>wrote:


That's nice YMMV


Never heard of Lindstrom

Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:39 pm   

In article <3gttkt.5qe.17.6_at_news.alt.net>,
Meat Plow wrote:

Fairly well known as the 'Rolls Royce' of cutters etc. But debatable if
they are worth the cost. If you're only doing the things those cutters
were designed for, like snipping copper leads, cheaper ones treated as
disposable can be fine. And use a 'disposed' of pair for the things that
could damage the good ones.

But I do have some Lindstrom tools.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman dave_at_davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:49 pm   

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:49:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


They get fired!

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:39 pm   

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:04:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


Yes, I am.


When it comes to finding you haven't got the tools to do the job and get
it out on deadline because of some idiot, that idiot's no investment.


Not *that* small. Many longtime employees with irreplaceable skills who
know better than to borrow tools without asking. They have their own
tools. If they want more, we buy them. They wouldn't lend me theirs,
not that I'd ask.

It's called discipline and commitment.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:04 pm   

Fred Abse wrote:

That only works if:

1. You are high enough up the food chain to do anything about it.

2. Have less invested in them than the tools.

Maybe a small company with a few employees of no particular skills, but
in the real world?

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm_at_mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:23 pm   

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:39:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave_at_davenoise.co.uk>wrote:


I don't doubt they are the cat's meow. I use a pair of side cuts for
anything less larger than 20. My nippers were always for nipping leads
from caps, diodes, etc.... The shearing edges are just too soft.

Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:30 am   

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:35:22 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:


How retarded of you. Most of the industry does NOT use oblique cutters.
Pretty simple shit. Run your plow over it and see what springs up.

How uninformed of you.

Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:43 am   

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:04:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm_at_cable.mendelson.com> wrote:


I can relate to that. I arrived at work one day, and went upstairs
down at the other end of the building. The new tech we hired started the
previous week. As I came to the end of the building my lab is at, and
looked out over the balcony, I saw him down at my bench, digging in my
personal tools/parts cabinets for whatever he felt like "he might need".

They did not do anything about it. Maybe because I was so mad about
the fact that such a low life fucktard had just been hired by our company
and was being considered a capable employee.

I think character flaws like that are grounds for instantaneous firing.

Not if it was a true colleague, looking for something he needed. This
was a new asshole, trying to get at my things, thinking he was getting in
before everyone else.

I only wish that the huge scare I filled him with when I hollered at
him when it happened had given him a heart attack.

He is fucking lucky I did not load up one of our BIG HV caps and dump
the fucker in his ass while saying, "Now go near my shit again, fucker,
and I'll dump one of these into your chest!"

I hate that the fucktards in the world cause me to compromise my
character just to put the stupid bastards in their place. I hate fuckers
that make me hate.

I am so glad that the scrutiny used where I work now, means that I can
trust every soul there implicitly.

I could be a fuck-up and they would keep me because I am part of the
family now.

But I am not a fuck-up. That asshole digging in my parts and tools
was.

Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:46 am   

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:51 -0500, Meat Plow <.> wrote:




Not on Lindstrom steel, it isn't. They use ball bearing steel. The
"shearing edges" are flawless.

BTW, side cutters perform NO shearing action whatsoever. They are not
shears. They are snips. Blades and seats strike into each other. On a
shear, the blades cross each other.

Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:45 am   

On Feb 11, 2:39 am, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:
SS > I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers
SS > from a place I worked at years ago. They were
SS > going belly up and tossed out boxes of the things.
SS > I'm still using the few that I haven't given away
SS > or broken. As long as you don't use them to cut
SS > steal (hence the broken cutters) they are
SS > awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.

G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?

G > At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt
G > companies, sometimes I have seen hard,
G > tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.

lifeimitateslife wrote:
lil > I think you assign "hard and tangible" to
lil > others when it can be assigned to you.
lil > Hard and tangible evidence that your
lil > statistical analysis prowess ain't that great.
lil >
lil > If the difference between buying $600
lil > worth of cheap shit tools or $5000
lil > worth of long lasting, high quality tools
lil > is a figure that you think could break
lil > just about any company, < snip>

Are you saying that the outfit that
Sansui Samurai described as having
gone belly up did the right thing by
buying $5000 worth of Rolls Royce
hand tools rather than the Xcelite
ones which would have cost $600?

G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?

Didn't I convey two alternatives there?

That the outfit failed:
A. BECAUSE they buy "only the finest" or
B. DESPITE buying "only the finest"?

It's like option A set you off so much that
you overlooked option B.

Judging from the way you took it very
personally, I'm guessing that you worked
somewhere where you groused about
the shit Xcelite nippers all day long....

How is that different from the MacIntosh
kooks?

Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:24 am   

Fred Abse wrote:

It's also a cultural thing. Here there is a much more socialist attitude
where the company owns the tools, and not the employees. Everything is
shared among the workers.

Pisses (angers for you UK types) the hell out of me, but it's the way
everyone thinks. People would even unlock my desk to get to my tools.

Note that until the mid 1990's no one was paid enough money to own their
own tools, and to this day very few are.

I recently resarched this because someone asked me about starting business
here that they had in the US. They have a tool franchise and drive around
in a van selling tools to craftsmen, mechanincs, etc.

It does not translate well, the workers can't afford the tools, and the
employers would rather buy a high end chinese tool than a high end
US/EU made tool because it is likely to get broken, lost or stolen.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm_at_mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:22 am   

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:24:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:


We don't have "workers", we have engineers and technicians.


I'm American.


Anybody unlocking anybody else's desk without authorization here, would be
in *serious* shit.


In "my" world, the company buys the tools, the individual "owns" them.


Sounds like Snap-On


Our people are free to choose which maker's tools they want us to buy.
They tend to develop a consensus.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:32 am   

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:45:09 -0800 (PST), Greegor <greegor47_at_gmail.com>
wrote:


No. I am saying that your claim that it is any indication of a
causation for having gone bankrupt, is a fallacy, and it is.

Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:07 pm   

In article <slrnhn9pa9.ipt.gsm_at_cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm_at_cable.mendelson.com> wrote:

'Pisses me off' or pissed off means angry annoyed or unhappy about
something in the UK.

Pissed means drunk.

To piss means to take a leak, as piss is the slang for urine.

But progs like CSI mean we are familiar with the US usage. ;-)

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman dave_at_davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:41 pm   

Full context restored for unanswered questions.

On Feb 11, 2:39 am, Sansui Samari <jimjam1...@gmail.com> wrote:
SS > I cobbed a bunch of lindstrom cutters and pliers
SS > from a place I worked at years ago. They were
SS > going belly up and tossed out boxes of the things.
SS > I'm still using the few that I haven't given away
SS > or broken. As long as you don't use them to cut
SS > steal (hence the broken cutters) they are
SS > awesome. I wish I would have grabbed more.

G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G >
G > At the liquidation sales for some bankrupt
G > companies, sometimes I have seen hard,
G > tangeable evidence of WHY they went broke.

lifeimitateslife wrote:
lil > I think you assign "hard and tangible" to
lil > others when it can be assigned to you.
lil > Hard and tangible evidence that your
lil > statistical analysis prowess ain't that great.
lil >
lil > If the difference between buying $600
lil > worth of cheap shit tools or $5000
lil > worth of long lasting, high quality tools
lil > is a figure that you think could break
lil > just about any company, < snip>

G > Are you saying that the outfit that
G > Sansui Samurai described as having
G > gone belly up did the right thing by
G > buying $5000 worth of Rolls Royce
G > hand tools rather than the Xcelite
G > ones which would have cost $600?

lil > No. I am saying that your claim that it is any indication of a
lil > causation for having gone bankrupt, is a fallacy, and it is.

That you disagree does not make something a logical fallacy.

Wasteful overspending and overcommitment
in purchasing are common contributors to
business failure. The number one cause of
failure for small business is undercapitalization
or excessive cost of money. ie Cost controls.

The stuff that "belly up" companies throw away
or liquidate MAY VERY WELL reveal important
symptoms of problems that destroyed them.

Like most people here I enjoy and appreciate
truly good quality tools, FOR ME.

As others have mentioned, theftability, loss
and abuse CAN MEAN that the Xcelite tools
provide a better Return On Investment.

The nature of the work, the security of
individuals toolboxes, the number of people
who might potentially forget to return a
tool are all variables that could decide
whether the ROLLS ROYCE quality of
nippers are a good or bad idea.

Fluorescent light bulbs at $ 4 a shot are
great if your mortgage is totally paid off.
If you're selling your home next week
or if you're a landlord the ROI's not there.

Businesses OWNING their own facilities
sometimes find that they are better off to
sell their own building and rent it back
because they can't charge off any building
cost if they OWN the building.

I neither condone this nor like it, I just report it.

I LOVE well machined high quality tools
and craftsmanship, but it doesn't always
show up on the P&L sheet. I wish it did.

You seem to be applying personal taste
to profitability rationalizations.

That's partly why "bean counters" are
so widely disliked, isn't it?

My background is in small businesses
where you wear many hats and can't
blame "that other guy".

G > Were they going belly up because of
G > buying only the finest, or despite of that?
G >
G > Didn't I convey two alternatives there?
G >
G > That the outfit failed:
G > A. BECAUSE they buy "only the finest" or
G > B. DESPITE buying "only the finest"?
G >
G > It's like option A set you off so much that
G > you overlooked option B.

Did you miss option B, lil ?

G > Judging from the way you took it very
G > personally, I'm guessing that you worked
G > somewhere where you groused about
G > the shit Xcelite nippers all day long....

G > How is that different from the
G > MacIntosh kooks?

I wrote this BEFORE I read your posted
story about exploding at a new guy for
using your tools. Did somebody at the
company give him permission to do so?

Telling the new guy to use your toolbox
would seem to be fairly typical hazing or
office politics considering your reaction.