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Tom Del Rosso
Guest

Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:45 am   



pcdhobbs_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:

Ridership is down by 90% or so, but so is service, which is a
problem. I saw an interesting study thar showed how the Red Death
hotspots are concentrated along the subway lines used by 'essential
workers' to go between work (largely in Manhattan) and home (the
outer parts of Quens and Brooklyn). Most of those folks don't make
too much money and have no other way to get there.


They might have money for a car but no place to park in Manhattan. For
those who don't own cars, it's not because of money, but a lack of
parking where they live in Queens or Brooklyn.

The city could supply them with parking passes and set up parking areas
on the sides of some of the wide Manhattan avenues, and hospitals could
commandeer public garages but I don't know if that's happening. I
haven't been to Manhattan in months.

david eather
Guest

Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:45 pm   



On 24/04/2020 2:38 pm, Ricky C wrote:
Quote:
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 11:17:54 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 1:49:19 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 01:06:34 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs_at_gmail.com wrote:

Yep, never been in a NY subway. Might help if the "people load" was
reduced by a partial shut down (or a partial restart!) and as you
suggest more passenger moving capacity to thin out the herd.

Ridership is down by 90% or so, but so is service, which is a problem. I saw an interesting study thar showed how the Red Death hotspots are concentrated along the subway lines used by 'essential workers' to go between work (largely in Manhattan) and home (the outer parts of Quens and Brooklyn). Most of those folks don't make too much money and have no other way to get there.

Contagion must be a radical function of population density.

The Australian contact tracing people seem to think that you need to close - within 1.5 metres - of an infected person for about 15 minutes to have high probability of being infected.

That's 5 feet which is not really different from the 6 feet they recommend here.

It seems to me the conditions of the proximity are just as important. If you are in a place where everyone is 5-6 feet from everyone else and more than one person has the virus, I think it is going to infect people. 6 feet may be fine if you are 1 on 1 with someone in a room or outside, but with lots of people... I can't see it. Once the micro droplets are in the air they move around until they come into contact with a surface... like your face.


Parties are the ideal environment, and other social gatherings can work almost as well. Carers looking after people in aged-care centres do seem to be able to get close enough for long enough to infect most of the people they are looking after.

Exactly. People will forget to keep 5-6 feet apart but more importantly (I think) there will be lots of them increasing the odds that someone will be infected.


If the population density is too low for people to get together for parties there will be a lot less infection, but population density is a bit to broad a measure to be all that useful.

When does population density prevent parties??? People are happy to drive miles and miles for a party.

I think I posted before that a friend is isolating his family and is not going to work. Some of his neighbors are having people over for parties. It's great for the moral, but a bad idea for the pandemic. We really, really need to stop the transmission of this disease so we can end the lockdown. There's no chance at even doing any good if we open up exposure before we've taken this disease down.

Why are we doing so poorly in fighting this disease?


Late start. (thus making contact tracing less effective)
Failure to take it seriously (by some)

Those two probably are the biggest but some other reasons are:

greed (of some). Hey you, poor people, I don't care if you die. Get back
to work so I and my business can make money!
No universal social welfare safety net (so people did not have to break
quarantine or starve)
Demands to hold onto individual rights regardless of situation, rather
than to voluntarily not enforce them for a limited time for the public good.
Failure to realize that *unrestrained* capitalism is not always the best
way to run an economy, thus blocking any reforms or temporary measures
that might look like "socialism". (Universal health care and a universal
unemployment benefit would both have helped - even if the unemployment
benefit was paid as an anti-corona virus benefit that stopped when the
pandemic was under control)

Ricky C
Guest

Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:45 am   



On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:03:05 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
Quote:
On 24/04/2020 2:38 pm, Ricky C wrote:

Why are we doing so poorly in fighting this disease?


Late start. (thus making contact tracing less effective)


That is totally swamped at this point. The infection actually did have a late start in this country compared to many. In the US we reached a given level of infection later than most, much later.


> Failure to take it seriously (by some)

If you are talking about the early portion of the disease ramp, again, totally swamped by the later growth. If you mean the continued ignorance of the reality by the general public, then I agree. But there isn't much info to support that. I mean I don't see much compared to the total populations. Just a few needing haircuts.


Quote:
Those two probably are the biggest but some other reasons are:

greed (of some). Hey you, poor people, I don't care if you die. Get back
to work so I and my business can make money!
No universal social welfare safety net (so people did not have to break
quarantine or starve)
Demands to hold onto individual rights regardless of situation, rather
than to voluntarily not enforce them for a limited time for the public good.
Failure to realize that *unrestrained* capitalism is not always the best
way to run an economy, thus blocking any reforms or temporary measures
that might look like "socialism". (Universal health care and a universal
unemployment benefit would both have helped - even if the unemployment
benefit was paid as an anti-corona virus benefit that stopped when the
pandemic was under control)


Aren't most businesses keeping people at home? I have seen multiple reports of Charter Communications (Spectrum) requiring people to come to work even when they could easily do their job from home. Otherwise not so many.

Norway seems to have a lid on this. Why can't everyone? No matter how we got here, we should be able to clamp down on this like any other emergency. If it drags out then people will think it's a mess we can't get rid of and toss auntie Jane under the bus so they can get their hair and nails done.

--

Rick C.

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Neo Bass
Guest

Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:45 pm   



<<Snip>>
Quote:

I keep seeing a "Kings" on the map. That's not a borough of the city like Queens is though, right? Is that a county in NY state? Oh, it's the county that Brooklyn is in, i.e. the same thing geographically. NYC is complicated!
Snip


A simple Google search yields Kings County is Brooklyn if no one has mentioned that yet.

D

Ricky C
Guest

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:45 am   



On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 5:15:59 PM UTC-4, Neo Bass wrote:
Quote:
Snip

I keep seeing a "Kings" on the map. That's not a borough of the city like Queens is though, right? Is that a county in NY state? Oh, it's the county that Brooklyn is in, i.e. the same thing geographically. NYC is complicated!
Snip

A simple Google search yields Kings County is Brooklyn if no one has mentioned that yet.

D


I think you replied to a pretty old post. I figured that out some time ago. They also refer to Staten Island as Richmond county and Manhattan as New York county. They don't actually have county governments though.

--

Rick C.

-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Tom Del Rosso
Guest

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:45 am   



Ricky C wrote:
Quote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 5:15:59 PM UTC-4, Neo Bass wrote:
Snip

I keep seeing a "Kings" on the map. That's not a borough of the
city like Queens is though, right? Is that a county in NY state?
Oh, it's the county that Brooklyn is in, i.e. the same thing
geographically. NYC is complicated! <<Snip

A simple Google search yields Kings County is Brooklyn if no one has
mentioned that yet.

D

I think you replied to a pretty old post. I figured that out some
time ago. They also refer to Staten Island as Richmond county and
Manhattan as New York county. They don't actually have county
governments though.


Yes they do, but not as counties. There is a Borough President in each,
and the 5 of them used to form the city's Board of Estimate, which the
US Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional 30 years ago. The boroughs
don't have any other branch of government, as the only local legislature
is the city assembly.

Ricky C
Guest

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:45 am   



On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 10:31:22 PM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Quote:
Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 5:15:59 PM UTC-4, Neo Bass wrote:
Snip

I keep seeing a "Kings" on the map. That's not a borough of the
city like Queens is though, right? Is that a county in NY state?
Oh, it's the county that Brooklyn is in, i.e. the same thing
geographically. NYC is complicated! <<Snip

A simple Google search yields Kings County is Brooklyn if no one has
mentioned that yet.

D

I think you replied to a pretty old post. I figured that out some
time ago. They also refer to Staten Island as Richmond county and
Manhattan as New York county. They don't actually have county
governments though.

Yes they do, but not as counties. There is a Borough President in each,
and the 5 of them used to form the city's Board of Estimate, which the
US Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional 30 years ago. The boroughs
don't have any other branch of government, as the only local legislature
is the city assembly.


I think you are agreeing with me that they don't have county governments. I'm not clear on your other statements. I don't really care about the governmental organization of NYC. I was simply mentioning this because the city shows up as five counties in the COVID-19 map I use. I've heard of Queens, but not of Kings.

--

Rick C.

-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Tom Del Rosso
Guest

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:45 pm   



Ricky C wrote:
Quote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 10:31:22 PM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 5:15:59 PM UTC-4, Neo Bass wrote:
Snip

I keep seeing a "Kings" on the map. That's not a borough of the
city like Queens is though, right? Is that a county in NY state?
Oh, it's the county that Brooklyn is in, i.e. the same thing
geographically. NYC is complicated! <<Snip

A simple Google search yields Kings County is Brooklyn if no one
has mentioned that yet.

D

I think you replied to a pretty old post. I figured that out some
time ago. They also refer to Staten Island as Richmond county and
Manhattan as New York county. They don't actually have county
governments though.

Yes they do, but not as counties. There is a Borough President in
each, and the 5 of them used to form the city's Board of Estimate,
which the US Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional 30 years ago. The
boroughs don't have any other branch of government, as the only
local legislature is the city assembly.

I think you are agreeing with me that they don't have county
governments. I'm not clear on your other statements. I don't really
care about the governmental organization of NYC. I was simply
mentioning this because the city shows up as five counties in the
COVID-19 map I use. I've heard of Queens, but not of Kings.


Just that you speculated that they don't have county governments but
they do have the same sort of government as any other counties. I don't
think any county has 2 or 3 branches of government. I think counties
generally just have executives, and the 5 boroughs have them too. No
county makes laws AFAIK. The executives used to have more power when
they formed the Board of Estimate.

Ricky C
Guest

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:45 pm   



On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 8:57:36 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Quote:
Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 10:31:22 PM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso
wrote:
Ricky C wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 5:15:59 PM UTC-4, Neo Bass wrote:
Snip

I keep seeing a "Kings" on the map. That's not a borough of the
city like Queens is though, right? Is that a county in NY state?
Oh, it's the county that Brooklyn is in, i.e. the same thing
geographically. NYC is complicated! <<Snip

A simple Google search yields Kings County is Brooklyn if no one
has mentioned that yet.

D

I think you replied to a pretty old post. I figured that out some
time ago. They also refer to Staten Island as Richmond county and
Manhattan as New York county. They don't actually have county
governments though.

Yes they do, but not as counties. There is a Borough President in
each, and the 5 of them used to form the city's Board of Estimate,
which the US Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional 30 years ago. The
boroughs don't have any other branch of government, as the only
local legislature is the city assembly.

I think you are agreeing with me that they don't have county
governments. I'm not clear on your other statements. I don't really
care about the governmental organization of NYC. I was simply
mentioning this because the city shows up as five counties in the
COVID-19 map I use. I've heard of Queens, but not of Kings.

Just that you speculated that they don't have county governments but
they do have the same sort of government as any other counties. I don't
think any county has 2 or 3 branches of government. I think counties
generally just have executives, and the 5 boroughs have them too. No
county makes laws AFAIK. The executives used to have more power when
they formed the Board of Estimate.


Every county I've lived in makes laws. They usually impose taxes and are responsible for organizing police, fire, trash, etc., etc., etc. which the NYC counties don't do. The city does.

Try living in PA where everywhere has three levels of government. If you aren't in a city you are in a borough or a township (not the same as a town at all). Essentially every location is in a miniature county. NJ has them too.

--

Rick C.

-++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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