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30A wiring advice

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Joe 90
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:39 pm   



I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls. Can
I use two 12 gauge wires connected in parallel? Based on my electrical
knowledge, this would split the max current between the two wires allowing
the wires to run cooler and well below max capacity.

Wade Lippman
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:48 pm   



Don't even thing about it.

If your #10 gets disconnected, the circuit opens. No problem.
If one strand of your double #12 gets disconnected, your house burns down.
Problem.

Wade Lippman
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:52 pm   



"Wade Lippman" <toller_at_frontiernetnospam.net> wrote in message
news:5Tmeb.7273$N57.3589_at_news01.roc.ny...
Quote:
Don't even thing about it.

If your #10 gets disconnected, the circuit opens. No problem.
If one strand of your double #12 gets disconnected, your house burns down.
Problem.

Actually, it is okay to thing about it; just don't think about it. (fingers

faster than brain, sorry.)

Andrew Gabriel
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:11 pm   



In article <5Tmeb.7273$N57.3589_at_news01.roc.ny>,
"Wade Lippman" <toller_at_frontiernetnospam.net> writes:
Quote:
Don't even thing about it.

If your #10 gets disconnected, the circuit opens. No problem.
If one strand of your double #12 gets disconnected, your house burns down.
Problem.

UK regs allow it providing each conductor has its own current
protection. In the case of more than 2 in parallel, protection
is required at both ends of the parallel run, as fault current
can be back-fed too, via the other parallel conductors.
Having said that, you'd have to be nuts to do all that just
to save using the right sized conductor in the first place.

--
Andrew Gabriel
Consultant Software Engineer

Zathera
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:20 pm   



"Joe 90" <donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3f79f827$1_4_at_news.bluewin.ch...
Quote:
I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot
get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls.
Can
I use two 12 gauge wires connected in parallel? Based on my electrical
knowledge, this would split the max current between the two wires allowing
the wires to run cooler and well below max capacity.

The NEC is pretty clear about parallel wiring in section 310-4. 1/0 (that
is one/zero) and larger are allowed to be paralleled. Smaller is not
allowed unless it is for instrumentation.

Robert Calvert
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:45 pm   



I can't think of any place in the world (except maybe the African jungle)
where you can't find #10 wire or something equivalent.

In any case, this reminds me of some 'African engineering' I did to my
electric oven one time. One evening, my oven suddenly stopped working. After
looking in the back to see what might be wrong, I found that one of the
wires somehow burned in two. Instead of going to an appliance parts store
and buying the proper part, I just took a cord from an old lamp, cut it into
five short pieces, bundled the pieces together and used them to replace the
wire that was there. I don't know how safe it was, but it worked. :-)

Robert

"Joe 90" <donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3f79f827$1_4_at_news.bluewin.ch...
Quote:
I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot
get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls.
Can
I use two 12 gauge wires connected in parallel? Based on my electrical
knowledge, this would split the max current between the two wires allowing
the wires to run cooler and well below max capacity.



Don Phillips
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:51 pm   



"Robert Calvert" <Hercules1_at_pcstarnet.com> wrote in message
news:vnk1teaid4j0e9_at_corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
I can't think of any place in the world (except maybe the African jungle)
where you can't find #10 wire or something equivalent.

My guess is it is the same place where there are not too many noisy
inspectors telling you how to build your house.


Sincerely,


Donald L. Phillips, Jr., P.E.
Worthington Engineering, Inc.
145 Greenglade Avenue
Worthington, OH 43085-2264

dphillips_at_worthingtonNSengineering.com
(remove NS to use the address)
614.937.0463 voice
208.975.1011 fax

http://worthingtonengineering.com

Robert A. Barr
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:01 pm   



Joe 90 wrote:

Quote:
I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls.

Sorry, can't help it: Why can't you get #10, when you can get #12?

Tony Hwang
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:14 pm   



Hi,
No #8 either?
Tony

Robert A. Barr wrote:

Quote:
Joe 90 wrote:


I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls.


Sorry, can't help it: Why can't you get #10, when you can get #12?


Brian
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:21 pm   



Do you have a death wish?!? Let me guess you live at the South Pole and supplies are limited.
Dude, give me your mailing address and the length of wire and I will frigging send it to you. You
can buy online form several suppliers. Or better yet call a qualified electrician!!!




"Joe 90" <donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote in message news:3f79f827$1_4_at_news.bluewin.ch...
I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls. Can
I use two 12 gauge wires connected in parallel? Based on my electrical
knowledge, this would split the max current between the two wires allowing
the wires to run cooler and well below max capacity.

Joe 90
Guest

Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:50 pm   



I just knew I would get asked about the supply problem!!! I live in
Switzerland now. The heavier wiring is simply not available in the DIY shops
here - its probably a safety precaution by the authorities, also Switzerland
supplies approx. 380V/220V to each dwelling so large gauge wires are not
really essential.

The dryer works fine following some modifications I made - basically
disconnecting internal 120V circuits that only served to provide some
advanced functions which we don't miss like moisture sensor based automatic
drying. I connected the heating element across a 240V supply and the motor
(5.2A, 1/2hp) and timer across a stepped down 120V. But whilst running, the
wires do feel a litle warm (note the unit has been running fine for the last
2 years in Switzerland and continues to do so) and this bothers me.

Wade thanks for your feedback, I feel really stupid not having realized that
in the first place. I think the best solution will be to get some #8 wire
from a friend in the USA.

Thanks everyone. More feedback is of course welcome.

"Brian" <spamthis_at_mail.com> wrote in message
news:meoeb.1358$Gb.1232_at_news2.central.cox.net...
Quote:
Do you have a death wish?!? Let me guess you live at the South Pole and
supplies are limited.
Dude, give me your mailing address and the length of wire and I will
frigging send it to you. You
can buy online form several suppliers. Or better yet call a qualified
electrician!!!




"Joe 90" <donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3f79f827$1_4_at_news.bluewin.ch...
I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot
get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls.
Can
I use two 12 gauge wires connected in parallel? Based on my electrical
knowledge, this would split the max current between the two wires allowing
the wires to run cooler and well below max capacity.





John McGaw
Guest

Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:48 am   



"Joe 90" <donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3f79f827$1_4_at_news.bluewin.ch...
Quote:
I am making some changes to an electrical dryer. Where I live, I cannot
get
hold of 10 gauge wire for the 30A circuit - I know, don't ask why, pls.
Can
I use two 12 gauge wires connected in parallel? Based on my electrical
knowledge, this would split the max current between the two wires allowing
the wires to run cooler and well below max capacity.


Damned difficult to believe that 10-gauge wire is unavailable in
Switzerland. One might simply drive to a neighboring coutry and buy it if it
is. Or is CH simply a convenient posting location? In any case, I surely
wouldn't mess around with using multiple conductors to overcome the
problem -- for all the reasons that others have cited.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com

Wade Lippman
Guest

Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:50 am   



"Joe 90" <donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3f7a16db$1_1_at_news.bluewin.ch...
Quote:
I just knew I would get asked about the supply problem!!! I live in
Switzerland now. The heavier wiring is simply not available in the DIY
shops
here - its probably a safety precaution by the authorities, also
Switzerland
supplies approx. 380V/220V to each dwelling so large gauge wires are not
really essential.

How do they supply 380v/220v? Presumably the 220v is single pole. Where

does the additional 160v come from?

Robert Calvert
Guest

Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:53 am   



"Joe 90" <donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3f7a16db$1_1_at_news.bluewin.ch...
Quote:
I just knew I would get asked about the supply problem!!! I live in
Switzerland now. The heavier wiring is simply not available in the DIY
shops
here - its probably a safety precaution by the authorities

<snip>

I guess I should have known that bureaucracy had something to do with this.
It seems to me that a law like this would actually increase the danger since
it would create the temptation for the do-it-yourselfer to use smaller wire
than he should be using.

Robert

John Woodgate
Guest

Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:50 am   



I read in sci.engr.electrical.compliance that Joe 90
<donot_at_usethisaddress.com> wrote (in <3f7a16db$1_1_at_news.bluewin.ch>)
about '30A wiring advice', on Wed, 1 Oct 2003:

Quote:
I just knew I would get asked about the supply problem!!! I live in
Switzerland now. The heavier wiring is simply not available in the DIY
shops here - its probably a safety precaution by the authorities, also
Switzerland supplies approx. 380V/220V to each dwelling so large gauge
wires are not really essential.

All the advice you were given applies, AIUI, to installations in US. In
Switzerland, the rules are quite different. What you are doing may even
be illegal there. Switzerland controls what is connected to the
electricity supply VERY tightly.

You won't get #10 wire in Europe because European cables are described
by the conductor area in square millimetres. I don't have a conversion
chart from AWG to square mm; for 30 A you probably need 6 mm^2 cable,
but it depends on exactly what sort of cable and how it is installed.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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