20 Amp dimmer control?

On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 14:31:12 +1100, John G <greentest_at_ozemail.com.au> wrote:

krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz explained on 2/02/2012 :
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:51:46 +1100, John G <greentest_at_ozemail.com.au
wrote:

Ken S. Tucker used his keyboard to write :
On Jan 31, 5:32 pm, John Larkin <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com
wrote:
On 30 Jan 2012 09:10:52 GMT, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:



On 2012-01-28, Pueblo Dancer <Kach...@AllHopiIsLost.org> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:54:28 -0500, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:36:46 -0800, Hellequin
Helleq...@yourpipesaremypipes.org> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST), NT <meow2...@care2.com
wrote:
If its a solid massive hotplate, as most new ones are, the only way
to do this is to reduce the temperature of the solid mass of metal.
This is your flawed logic. The curve of time plot to bring the
water to boil goes up practically exponentially, plotted against
the power required to get it there. You are obviously still in the
dark.
As John said, AlwaysWrong.
There is a reason why bi-0metallic duty cycle oriented switching is
used.

It isn't cost.

Gas IS continuously variable, and there is no efficiency hit. ALL of
the heat produced gets coupled to the pot.
Bullshit. lots of gas heat misses the pot. ever leave a plastic
ladle in the soup pot?

immersion heaters are more efficient than gas flame.
Electric resistive element stoves can easily be manufactured as
continuously variable, but aren't, because of the already extremely
poor coupling efficiency to the pot. The part that counts. The proof
is in the microwave oven water boil time plot.
microwave ovens are almost as efficient as immersion heaters.
they only waste small fraction of the input energy
Electric inductive coupled stoves ARE continuously variable BECAUSE
we are back at 100% coupling efficiency.
also the induction coil is driven by an inverter and it's cheap to it
that way.

You are wrong for calling me wrong.
You are an arrogant arsehole.
The right way to 'fire' these types
of heating coils is absolutely full on and using DUTY CYCLE as the
controlling means.

so how do you stop your saussages from burning? move the ftying pan
further away ans waste even more energy that way?
THAT water boils as quick as it ever will, and ALSO
at lower settings along the way down the control dial.
a immersion heater is the best way to boild water,
for smalley quantities than can be easily heated that way
a microwave is a good choice.
using gas or electric cooktops to beat water from cold to the boil is
just stupid.

Since we have the heat on all year, any heat that escapes around the
edge of the pot just helps to heat the house. So the gas to boil a pot
of water is free. Actually, better than free, since none of that heat
escapes up the flue.

John what about fumes? We have 1500W propane powered catalytic
burners for house heated when electricity fails, they're ok but we are
careful about CO2.
We have used a propane camp stove inside (again when power was out)
and my eyes teared up in a bout 10 minutes, that's why I went cat, do
have any problems that way?
Regards
Ken
PS: Thanks for your comments fella's.

Actually CO2 is not very dangerous at all and as it is not poisonous
you need enough to drown in.

Not true. CO2 is toxic but needs a concentration of around 15-20%, IIRC,
to be lethal. At high concentrations the blood can't swap O2 and CO2.

The real killer from unflued gas heaters of any type is the CO, carbon
Monoxide , which is poisonous in quite small quantities.

Carbon MONOXIDE is much more deadly as it is really a poison and only
needs a very small fraction of 1% in the atmosphere to cause death.

You might try reading (and writing) for comprehension.

krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz brought next idea :
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 14:31:12 +1100, John G <greentest_at_ozemail.com.au> wrote:

krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz explained on 2/02/2012 :
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:51:46 +1100, John G <greentest_at_ozemail.com.au
wrote:

Ken S. Tucker used his keyboard to write :
On Jan 31, 5:32 pm, John Larkin <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com
wrote:
On 30 Jan 2012 09:10:52 GMT, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:



On 2012-01-28, Pueblo Dancer <Kach...@AllHopiIsLost.org> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:54:28 -0500, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:36:46 -0800, Hellequin
Helleq...@yourpipesaremypipes.org> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:07:10 -0800 (PST), NT <meow2...@care2.com
wrote:
If its a solid massive hotplate, as most new ones are, the only way
to do this is to reduce the temperature of the solid mass of metal.
This is your flawed logic. The curve of time plot to bring the
water to boil goes up practically exponentially, plotted against
the power required to get it there. You are obviously still in the
dark.
As John said, AlwaysWrong.
There is a reason why bi-0metallic duty cycle oriented switching is
used.

It isn't cost.

Gas IS continuously variable, and there is no efficiency hit. ALL of
the heat produced gets coupled to the pot.
Bullshit. lots of gas heat misses the pot. ever leave a plastic
ladle in the soup pot?

immersion heaters are more efficient than gas flame.
Electric resistive element stoves can easily be manufactured as
continuously variable, but aren't, because of the already extremely
poor coupling efficiency to the pot. The part that counts. The proof
is in the microwave oven water boil time plot.
microwave ovens are almost as efficient as immersion heaters.
they only waste small fraction of the input energy
Electric inductive coupled stoves ARE continuously variable BECAUSE
we are back at 100% coupling efficiency.
also the induction coil is driven by an inverter and it's cheap to it
that way.

You are wrong for calling me wrong.
You are an arrogant arsehole.
The right way to 'fire' these types
of heating coils is absolutely full on and using DUTY CYCLE as the
controlling means.

so how do you stop your saussages from burning? move the ftying pan
further away ans waste even more energy that way?
THAT water boils as quick as it ever will, and ALSO
at lower settings along the way down the control dial.
a immersion heater is the best way to boild water,
for smalley quantities than can be easily heated that way
a microwave is a good choice.
using gas or electric cooktops to beat water from cold to the boil is
just stupid.

Since we have the heat on all year, any heat that escapes around the
edge of the pot just helps to heat the house. So the gas to boil a pot
of water is free. Actually, better than free, since none of that heat
escapes up the flue.

John what about fumes? We have 1500W propane powered catalytic
burners for house heated when electricity fails, they're ok but we are
careful about CO2.
We have used a propane camp stove inside (again when power was out)
and my eyes teared up in a bout 10 minutes, that's why I went cat, do
have any problems that way?
Regards
Ken
PS: Thanks for your comments fella's.

Actually CO2 is not very dangerous at all and as it is not poisonous
you need enough to drown in.

Not true. CO2 is toxic but needs a concentration of around 15-20%, IIRC,
to be lethal. At high concentrations the blood can't swap O2 and CO2.

The real killer from unflued gas heaters of any type is the CO, carbon
Monoxide , which is poisonous in quite small quantities.

Carbon MONOXIDE is much more deadly as it is really a poison and only
needs a very small fraction of 1% in the atmosphere to cause death.

You might try reading (and writing) for comprehension.

If you tell me what you do not understand I will try and explain.

CO in very small quantities (parts of 1 percent) is deadly.
CO2 at something like 20 percent and above disrupts the absorbsion of
O2.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:51:46 +1100, John G <greentest_at_ozemail.com.au> wrote:


Actually CO2 is not very dangerous at all and as it is not poisonous
you need enough to drown in.

Not true. CO2 is toxic but needs a concentration of around 15-20%, IIRC, to
be lethal. At high concentrations the blood can't swap O2 and CO2.

On 2012-02-02, krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:51:46 +1100, John G <greentest_at_ozemail.com.au> wrote:


Actually CO2 is not very dangerous at all and as it is not poisonous
you need enough to drown in.

Not true. CO2 is toxic but needs a concentration of around 15-20%, IIRC, to
be lethal. At high concentrations the blood can't swap O2 and CO2.

with propane heating the's no way to get 15% CO?

propane is C?H? (C3H8 if your reader can't render that)

it burns like this.

2C?H? + 11O? => 6CO? + 8H?O (O2,CO2,H20)

you get just over half the amount of CO? as the input O?

air is 75% N? 20% O? and 2% CO? and 3% other stuff

So, if you use 3/4 of the O? you get another 8% CO?
for a total around 10%

but the 5% oxygen remaining isnt't enough to breathe.

You'd asphyxiate before the CO? killed you.

I'm not sure what concentration od CO? is needed for significant
CO to be formed during combustion

lighter gasses (like methane) produce even less CO?