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180 degrees out of phase

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Uncle Peter
Guest

Sat May 10, 2014 4:56 am   



If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

--
Her voice had that tense grating quality, like a first-generation thermal paper fax machine that needed a band tightened.

Brian Gregory
Guest

Sat May 10, 2014 9:52 pm   



On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
Quote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?


No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Sat May 10, 2014 10:23 pm   



On Sat, 10 May 2014 16:52:02 +0100, Brian Gregory <bvdvgvrvevgvovrvy_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.


In that case what about the above in series with a load?

--
Q: Why can't you have a circumcised Morris dancer?
A: Because you have to be a complete prick to be a Morris dancer.

Ian Field
Guest

Sun May 11, 2014 3:09 am   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfnjsqvvswtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Sat, 10 May 2014 16:52:02 +0100, Brian Gregory
bvdvgvrvevgvovrvy_at_gmail.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

In that case what about the above in series with a load?


You need a really huge permanent magnet clamped on the electricity meter so
the V & I coils saturate their cores on alternate half-cycles.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Sun May 11, 2014 3:18 am   



On Sat, 10 May 2014 22:09:58 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfnjsqvvswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Sat, 10 May 2014 16:52:02 +0100, Brian Gregory
bvdvgvrvevgvovrvy_at_gmail.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

In that case what about the above in series with a load?

You need a really huge permanent magnet clamped on the electricity meter so
the V & I coils saturate their cores on alternate half-cycles.


It's a digital meter :-/

--
What do you call kinky sex with chocolate?
S&M&M

Brian Gregory
Guest

Sun May 11, 2014 3:55 am   



On 10/05/2014 16:52, Brian Gregory wrote:
Quote:
On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.


And, come to think of it, you'd also get some ludicrously high voltage
at the junction of the inductor and capacitor, potentially instantly
destroying the capacitor. Exactly how high depends on how perfect the
inductor and capacitor are and how exactly they resonate at the mains
frequency.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

petrus bitbyter
Guest

Mon May 12, 2014 4:13 am   



"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht news:op.xfl7cuxeswtmtb_at_red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage, and
run the meter backwards?

--
Her voice had that tense grating quality, like a first-generation thermal
paper fax machine that needed a band tightened.


No, but you may experience some expensive fireworks. Worst (or best?) case
you may earn a Darwin award.

petrus bitbyter

Ian Field
Guest

Mon May 12, 2014 11:27 pm   



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c_at_dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...
Quote:


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht news:op.xfl7cuxeswtmtb_at_red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?


Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Wed May 14, 2014 5:50 am   



On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c_at_dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht news:op.xfl7cuxeswtmtb_at_red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.


What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

--
I would defend the liberty of consenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes; but it is also necessary to protect the young and innocent. -- Arthur C. Clarke

Ian Field
Guest

Wed May 14, 2014 11:22 pm   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xftohyxpswtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c_at_dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht news:op.xfl7cuxeswtmtb_at_red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the
mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.


He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Thu May 15, 2014 12:23 am   



On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xftohyxpswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c_at_dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht news:op.xfl7cuxeswtmtb_at_red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the
mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.


That was my idea.

--
I'm not so think as you drunk I am...

Ian Field
Guest

Thu May 15, 2014 3:04 am   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfu31uw7swtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xftohyxpswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c_at_dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht news:op.xfl7cuxeswtmtb_at_red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the
mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the
voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.


And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Thu May 15, 2014 3:18 am   



On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfu31uw7swtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xftohyxpswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c_at_dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.


Then what was the DON'T!?

--
A guy says, "I remember the first time I used alcohol as a substitute for women."
"Yeah what happened?" asked the other.
The first guy replies, "Well, I got my penis stuck in the neck of the bottle."

Ian Field
Guest

Thu May 15, 2014 10:17 pm   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfvb411eswtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfu31uw7swtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xftohyxpswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c_at_dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?


Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Thu May 15, 2014 10:55 pm   



On Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:55 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfvb411eswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xfu31uw7swtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xftohyxpswtmtb_at_red.lan...




He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?

Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.


So what about putting in in series with a 240V load?

--
Exersize: the act of removing excess baggage

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